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Exposure question on the Canon S2

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Tamarack
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« on: November 13, 2005, 06:53:56 AM »

Hello there...any idea why you can't use the EV setting when the S2 IS is in manual mode? It seems that this would provide more exposure options if you are trying to establish a high shutter speed.

Thank you!
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Deb
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2005, 02:01:38 PM »

Hi there Tamarack, I would suspect that using the EV setting would be redundant since you are manually controlling the exposure anyway. If you want an adjustment of, say, +1EV, you would just manually set your exposure accordingly. EV adjustments are very useful when your exposure is predetermined by your camera and you want to override that mode.
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Tamarack
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2005, 02:12:51 PM »

Thank you Deb. I am just learning to control shutter speed and aperture manually and have had more experience with using the EV setting. Ultimately, I'd like to be able to get a good predictable result relying on the manual settings. However, since my results are iffy right now, would I be better off to use aperture priority and then try to compensate by using EV on my S2? Or should I rely on program mode and use the EV setting changes, which is somewhat more rigid?

Most people on the camera forums seem to use aperture priority, and I'm wondering why they prefer that to shutter speed priority.
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Deb
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2005, 02:34:24 PM »

Hi Tamarack, I think that's wonderful that you are trying to learn how to control your exposure! Cheers to you!

I'd suggest starting off using either aperture or shutter priority. Some prefer aperture priority because they are wanting control over their depth-of-field. Some choose shutter priority because the subject matter they are shooting is moving and they want control over freezing the action. Whichever you choose is fine. Leave EV set to 0 for the time being. Get a feel for how accurate your camera meters under various conditions. Try various metering modes as well if you have them (center-weighted mode, spot mode, matrix metering, etc. ... whatever you have). Notice how your exposure varies or doesn't vary with the metering mode. Once you learn how your particular camera functions, you can then compensate for any deviations (or personal preference for that matter) by adjusting your EV setting. My dad, for instance, likes his images a bit brighter than what his camera typically meters so he uses his EV adjustment to suit that purpose.
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Tamarack
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2005, 05:08:18 PM »

Thanks so much for the perspective, Deb. I really appreciate it and will go into the week with metering in mind!
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Deb
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2005, 05:21:05 PM »

Have fun! Let us know how it goes and holler if you have more questions.  Smiley
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Tamarack
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2005, 06:08:33 AM »

Hello! As suggested, I have experimented with metering and I think I have a better understanding of how metering changes can affect outcomes. Thank you again for the suggestions.

I now have more questions. First, snow and/or gray days! Living in a northern clime, our weather and light have changed from the luminous fall colors to the muted tones of winter. I would enjoy hearing from anyone any suggestions for settings to use to bring out color and light in 1)dull gray days with heavy skies and 2)bright snowy days. It seems that the two are quite different challenges.

Secondly, a technical question (I have an S2.) For the custom settings mode, is there just one  group of settings that the camera will switch to when I go to C on the dial or are there several combinations that can be stored in the camera?

I must say again how much I like this site. Your personalized responses combined with links to very clear pages that elaborate on certain points are a hit with me!





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ShutterbugGail
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2005, 07:33:56 AM »

So glad you're getting a better understanding of how metering changes can affect outcomes. The more you experiment and practice, the sooner it becomes second nature. Don't misunderstand me, there will always be challenging exposure situations...good times to bracket/use exposure compensation.

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suggestions for settings to use to bring out color and light in 1)dull gray days with heavy skies and 2)bright snowy days. It seems that the two are quite different challenges.


They are different challenges. Here is a site that offers helpful information about your subject. Some of it is written for film camera users, but most applies to digital photography as well:

http://www.photographic.com/phototechniques/1204lesson/

As to general tips, take a peek at this section of an article I wrote for a website about Ireland: "Taking photographs on an overcast or rainy day"

http://www.dochara.com/stuff/photography3.php


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For the custom settings mode, is there just one  group of settings that the camera will switch to when I go to C on the dial


If I understand your question correctly, then answer is yes. You can only save one set of custom settings in C mode.

Quote
I must say again how much I like this site. Your personalized responses combined with links to very clear pages that elaborate on certain points are a hit with me!


Thanks so VERY much for the kind words. You made our day! Our goal is to provide information about digital cameras and photography in a clean, concise and easy-to-understand manner.

Related reading - Exposure Bracketing:

http://www.digicamhelp.com/what-is-exposure-compensation/auto-exposure-bracketing.htm
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bdery
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2005, 08:05:07 AM »

Just a note on wintery lighing conditions. I'm from North too (Quebec city) so I have some experience with snow...

First and easiest, dull gray cloudy days. In that situation, the best thing to do is to use the Cloudy white balance setting. It won't achieve miracles, since the day is dull anyway, but colors will be better balanced. And sometimes a cloudy day allows you to put a clear emphasis on your intended subject. There is less risk of overexposure, and less distracting things in the sky to look at. But pictures won't have the punch of a summer sunny morning.

Second, bright snow... this is probably the trickiest thing to meter properly with any camera. Sadly, the S2 does not have a Snow white balance mode. So the best things you can do are either use the Beach/snow scene mode (in which case you’ll loose access to exposure controls) or use a custom White Balance setting. You can do that by pointing your camera at a white piece of paper and by making sure the paper is illuminated well.

You can also use the Sunny white balance setting, but you might have to process the images a bit afterward to remove the blue cast that sometimes appears when shooting snowy environments. Auto levels in Photoshop or with most softwares will take care of it.

When shooting snow, it might be safer to reduce the exposure value (EV compensation) a bit to avoid overexposing. The risk is greater since you basically have a light source coming from above you (the sun) and another coming from under you (snow).

Good luck!
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Tamarack
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 01:38:10 PM »

Thanks so much...this is a wealth of info. I've looked at all the links and I will study them carefully.
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Tamarack
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2005, 02:55:21 PM »

Thanks again so much for all the great suggestions for snow and gray days. I spent some time outside today in frigid weather doing some shooting. I’ve uploaded a couple of the shots to my Flickr account.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bitterroot/

The problem of blown-out snow in a shot that has lots of lights and darks is very evident in this link below:
http://static.flickr.com/35/69473289_b4edbfd690_b.jpg

The bank on the far side of the stream is featureless compared to its actual appearance. All the photos on the first couple of pages of my Flickr photostream indicate the difficulties I am having with the changed light and tones of winter vs. fall. I would be very interested in your input on these.

Also, I want to provide a link to the photoblog which I began last April in an effort to capture some of the beautiful places I am lucky enough to spend time in right now (I paid my dues in an urban setting for several years; however I was born and raised in western Montana and these are the images I love most.)
http://www.bitterrootandbergamot.blogspot.com

If you have any suggestions at all on the photos posted there, I would be most appreciative.

I have some other questions. As you can tell I’m on a major learning curve, trying to learn the S2, Photoshop, photographic principles in general, etc. etc. I spend time in some exquisite places and it has become a passion for me to try to capture these place and do some sort of justice to them. I had no experience whatsoever with photography prior to obtaining a Sony point and shoot a couple of years ago.

EQUIPMENT
- I have read that people are keeping a converter and a UV filter on the S2 permanently in order to protect the S2 lens. I've had so much trouble with the S2 lens cap that I have decided to try this. However, it feels very cumbersome to keep this converter on the camera all the time. It changes the shape of the package I carry around that I call my camera. I can’t put the camera in its protective case. Also, the clip-on lens cap I got for the UV lens from Lensmate isn't much better than the original anyway. Any other suggestions? Or should I just plan to keep that converter on 24/7?

TECHNIQUE
- When trying to get a clear focus on a meadow across a valley with branches in a forest intevening, I just get a focus on the branches and the background is soft and blurry. Should I try focusing at a similar distance through a clear space and then recompose the shot? See this link to understand what my problem is here.
http://static.flickr.com/9/69506974_ea4173128f_o.jpg

POST-PROCESSING
- In focus bracketing, if none of the pics are just right, should I work with the lightest pic and deepen it or vice versa?
- Could you point me to a link that explains the eyedropper thing in Levels? I just don’t understand how that works despite much research on the topic.
- I am using Photoshop Elements 3 for the Mac, which doesn’t have a curves function. I am curious about whether folks who do post-processing consider curves to be essential. I can download a plug-in to Elements with a curves function if it is. Do you use Levels AND curves, or do you use one or the other? Which technique in what situation?

Hope this isn’t too much stuff to unload on you! The fantastic responses I’ve gotten thus far have given me confidence to go deeper into the areas where I have the most questions. Many thanks again.


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bdery
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2005, 03:37:04 PM »

Lots of stuff to respond to! I hope I don't forget anything.

First, concerning the blown snow on the far bank. I think it's an excellent pic, the colours are very true and vibrant. To avoid overexposing the snow, you could dial down the EV compensation, or use center-wighted metering and lock the exposure on the brightest part of the image (to lock exposure with the S2, pres the metering button after half-pressing). But I have seen far worse snow shots than yours. Maybe a different composition, to avoid cutting the river would have carried a different feel.

Up to your questions:

Quote
EQUIPMENT
- I have read that people are keeping a converter and a UV filter on the S2 permanently in order to protect the S2 lens. I've had so much trouble with the S2 lens cap that I have decided to try this. However, it feels very cumbersome to keep this converter on the camera all the time. It changes the shape of the package I carry around that I call my camera. I can’t put the camera in its protective case. Also, the clip-on lens cap I got for the UV lens from Lensmate isn't much better than the original anyway. Any other suggestions? Or should I just plan to keep that converter on 24/7?
 

If you have the UV filter attached, you don't need a lens cap, since the filter will protect the lens. The cap will simply protect the filter... The adaptor of course increases the size of the package, but there's no working around that.

Quote
TECHNIQUE
- When trying to get a clear focus on a meadow across a valley with branches in a forest intervening, I just get a focus on the branches and the background is soft and blurry. Should I try focusing at a similar distance through a clear space and then recompose the shot? See this link to understand what my problem is here.
http://static.flickr.com/9/69506974_ea4173128f_o.jpg


You could either, as you say, focus on a clear part of the image, then recompose, or focus manually. If you're not sure about the accuracy of the MF, you can set it roughly, then press the SET button and the camera will try to improve on your work, while keeping the approximate distance you set (it shouldn't come back to 1 meter if you were at 50 meters...) One other thing you could do is use a small aperture to enlarge the depth of field. It would maybe be possible to get both the foreground and the background in focus then.

Quote
POST-PROCESSING
- In focus bracketing, if none of the pics are just right, should I work with the lightest pic and deepen it or vice versa?


You probably mean exposure bracketing? In that case, it's safer to work with the darkest pic, I'd say, because it's sometimes possible to get back some data from the dark parts, but it's impossible to get back data from a white blown image.

Quote
- Could you point me to a link that explains the eyedropper thing in Levels? I just don’t understand how that works despite much research on the topic.


I'm sorry but I can't advise you here. We'll see what the others have to say.

Quote
- I am using Photoshop Elements 3 for the Mac, which doesn’t have a curves function. I am curious about whether folks who do post-processing consider curves to be essential. I can download a plug-in to Elements with a curves function if it is. Do you use Levels AND curves, or do you use one or the other? Which technique in what situation?


Curves are useful, but sometimes tricky. I personally use both Elements 2 and Photoshop 7, and I've rarely used curves. I think it depends on the style of the user, you can achieve the same results by many different methods. Just go with what works.
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Tamarack
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2005, 02:47:41 AM »

Thank you for the helpful and prompt tips bdery! In terms of the exposure lock technique you mentioned, could you explain a bit more about that and what its purpose/effects are? I tried to find this in my S2 manual but couldn't locate info about it. Also, do I keep the shutter button half-pressed when I press set to lock the exposure?
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ShutterbugGail
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2005, 03:04:58 AM »

AE Lock (exposure) page 103 of the S2 manual

AF Lock (focus) page 110

This illustrates the concept:

http://www.digicamhelp.com/focus-exposure-lock/index.htm


btw, as to the S2 lenscap - you can improve how it stays on by gently running a serrated knife along the felt inside the cap. It improves the grip. However I since ordered a Lensmate adapter (for use with my filters) and the snap in lenscap. They work great. Personally, I keep the adapter on all the time, with a skylight filter, for added lens protection.
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2005, 07:47:41 AM »

I've been thinking about the previous questions and the very informative replies by the mods. There is so much good information in this thread.

One of the reasons I set up the Digicamhelp Q&A Board is so others would learn from what we share with eachother.  With this in mind, I'd like to request that if anyone has more than a couple of related questions, consider asking them in separate posts with a descriptive subject line for each.

I think many more board visitors will be inclined to read a post about a general topic rather than one they think is geared to only a specific digital camera.

Thanks!
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Tamarack
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2005, 11:57:39 AM »

Hello...thank you for the additional info and the guidance on posting questions. I will most certainly in future separate questions; I wasn't sure what to do with the last batch as I didn't want to create fragmentation on your board with one person asking too many little mini-questions. I do appreciate all the valuable info.
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2005, 12:17:33 PM »

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 I wasn't sure what to do with the last batch as I didn't want to create fragmentation on your board with one person asking too many little mini-questions.  


You did just fine! You're more than welcome to ask any questions you have, and the one's you've asked are very good ones. Just thinking of a way that many site visitors will benefit from the questions and answers.

btw, your portfolio is lovely. It's almost impossible to prevent blown out areas in some photos. As has been pointed out, in those types of scenes, I personally try to underexpose then adjust when editing.
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